EVE Search - New drones, modules and what not


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 42 post(s)
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.31 19:24:00 - [1] Tux, Okay, I see the changes. Now, a few things initially: Webbing. 40% for a large? Er...isn't that a little over the top? Unless there's a HUGE stacking penalty, that's OTT. An EW Drone skill. I think you should have to train another skill, maybe rank 3, to use them. Max 5m, sure, but only with some training. I'll stop n00bs from pumping out EW drones from a cruiser. Size specific damage. Now, more than ever, we need size-specific damage. Large drones hitting BS and some damage to cruisers. Medium drones hitting BS and cruisers and some damage to frigs. Small drones hitting everything. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.10.31 19:24:00 - [2] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/10/2005 19:41:34 Tux, Okay, I see the changes. Now, a few things initially: Webbing. 40% for a large? Er...isn't that a little over the top? Unless there's a HUGE stacking penalty, that's OTT. An EW Drone skill. I think you should have to train another skill, maybe rank 3, to use them. Max 5m, sure, but only with some training. I'll stop n00bs from pumping out EW drones from a cruiser. Size specific damage. Now, more than ever, we need size-specific damage. Large drones hitting BS and some damage to cruisers. Medium drones hitting BS and cruisers and some damage to frigs. Small drones hitting everything. My specific worry is 2 heavy web drones + 3 heavy damage = dead interceptors with NO slots spent to count them. Fair enough if you sacrifice a med for a web, and evene THEN you won't have reach-out-and-kill capacity that this would give. My next specific worry is thermal drones. Is there any chance that the type-specific drone characteristics could be, say, halves in scope? Yes, it makes damage drones a little more generic but we're getting all sorts of drones anyway //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.31 19:30:00 - [3] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Originally by: James Lyrus What, your fleets didn't use drones already? I'd like to see your current drones do didly at anywhere over 15k, where 99.9% of fleetcombat happens anyway. These things do damage up to 75k. ? Fot LAG. Well, certainly SOME people did. Heh. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.10.31 19:30:00 - [4] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Originally by: James Lyrus What, your fleets didn't use drones already? I'd like to see your current drones do didly at anywhere over 15k, where 99.9% of fleetcombat happens anyway. These things do damage up to 75k. ? Fot LAG. Well, certainly SOME people did. Heh. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.31 19:33:00 - [5] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Gastropod We need warp scrambling drones. How could you have missed that tux? Didn't miss it. I just didn't do them. The problem is the simple way that propulsion jamming works, it's impossible to make them without making them overpowered. Duration-limited. Maybe 2s for light, 3 for med, 5 for heavies. Then they need to return and recharge for say 30s. Sequential, not stacked. So you'd get 25s of 1-point disruption with 5 heavies. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.10.31 19:33:00 - [6] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Gastropod We need warp scrambling drones. How could you have missed that tux? Didn't miss it. I just didn't do them. The problem is the simple way that propulsion jamming works, it's impossible to make them without making them overpowered. Duration-limited. Maybe 2s for light, 3 for med, 5 for heavies. Then they need to return and recharge for say 30s. Sequential, not stacked. So you'd get 25s of 1-point disruption with 5 heavies. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.31 22:47:00 - [7] Originally by: DigitalCommunist - A full set of lights vs a frig, and a full set of mediums vs a cruiser is not as effective as a full set of heavies vs a bs. This is because heavy drones get a damage bonus from the heavy drones skill while the other two do not. Well, hopefully if they fix the tracking of large and medium drones, they can then up the damage of the medium and light drones to be exactly that - a useful and powerful attack, but not the end-all, except for specalised drone ships. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.10.31 22:47:00 - [8] Originally by: DigitalCommunist - A full set of lights vs a frig, and a full set of mediums vs a cruiser is not as effective as a full set of heavies vs a bs. This is because heavy drones get a damage bonus from the heavy drones skill while the other two do not. Well, hopefully if they fix the tracking of large and medium drones, they can then up the damage of the medium and light drones to be exactly that - a useful and powerful attack, but not the end-all, except for specalised drone ships. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.01 01:40:00 - [9] Originally by: GC13 /me thinks that Gallente would complain a lot less if the bonuses on their ships were instead changed to +10% thermal damage per level, and +5% other damage per level. That way, they still have the racial specialization, but their drone carriers still have a noticable leg up on non-droners in all damage types. Versatility allways has a price. 7.5% thermal and 2.5% others maybe. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.01 01:40:00 - [10] Originally by: GC13 /me thinks that Gallente would complain a lot less if the bonuses on their ships were instead changed to +10% thermal damage per level, and +5% other damage per level. That way, they still have the racial specialization, but their drone carriers still have a noticable leg up on non-droners in all damage types. Versatility allways has a price. 7.5% thermal and 2.5% others maybe. //Maya

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.01 20:36:00 - [11] Some more concerns. Diverse damage ALLWAYS has a price in total done. It's why the minmatar have a lower overall damage. Going from +10% thermal to +10% all is too potent. +5% to all, +7.5% thermal and +2.5% others or even, if you must, +10% thermal and +5% others would be far more appropriate. Jamming drones having a 5s cycle time. Sure, it's lots of low probability jams. However. If you are jammed for 5s or 20s, you lose your target lock. So you have to lock the target again (incidently, I'm not a fan of that. Thread sometime...but not now). This makes it more potent than the low strenght suggests. Personally, I'd drop these entirely as they're just as much a can of worms as scrambler ones. Moros. As a dread, I think that +1 drone/level AND a halved damage bonus would be appropriate. Although in this case, even if others are versatile I'd keep it as thermal only... "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.01 20:36:00 - [12] Some more concerns. Diverse damage ALLWAYS has a price in total done. It's why the minmatar have a lower overall damage. Going from +10% thermal to +10% all is too potent. +5% to all, +7.5% thermal and +2.5% others or even, if you must, +10% thermal and +5% others would be far more appropriate. Jamming drones having a 5s cycle time. Sure, it's lots of low probability jams. However. If you are jammed for 5s or 20s, you lose your target lock. So you have to lock the target again (incidently, I'm not a fan of that. Thread sometime...but not now). This makes it more potent than the low strenght suggests. Personally, I'd drop these entirely as they're just as much a can of worms as scrambler ones. Moros. As a dread, I think that +1 drone/level AND a halved damage bonus would be appropriate. Although in this case, even if others are versatile I'd keep it as thermal only... //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.01 20:47:00 - [13] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/11/2005 20:47:41 Originally by: Forsch Originally by: Maya Rkell Diverse damage ALLWAYS has a price in total done. It's why the minmatar have a lower overall damage. Going from +10% thermal to +10% all is too potent. +5% to all, +7.5% thermal and +2.5% others or even, if you must, +10% thermal and +5% others would be far more appropriate. The damage should stay the same as it is now. For all drones. If it means +10% damage then it should be +10%. Stop trying to get others nerfed just because you are unhappy with the weapons you use. Aww, someone only flys Amarr ships I see. It only "means" 10% damage because that is an arbitrary descision by the devs. It's unbalanced, especially for a certain frigate carrier, and I will argue against it. If it goes through, then I will USE it, by flying ships in question. I am a pragmatist, to your egotism. Rounding up: I hope certain ships (cough arround the frigate level cough) will be examined for necessary exceptions. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.01 20:47:00 - [14] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/11/2005 20:47:41 Originally by: Forsch Originally by: Maya Rkell Diverse damage ALLWAYS has a price in total done. It's why the minmatar have a lower overall damage. Going from +10% thermal to +10% all is too potent. +5% to all, +7.5% thermal and +2.5% others or even, if you must, +10% thermal and +5% others would be far more appropriate. The damage should stay the same as it is now. For all drones. If it means +10% damage then it should be +10%. Stop trying to get others nerfed just because you are unhappy with the weapons you use. Aww, someone only flys Amarr ships I see. It only "means" 10% damage because that is an arbitrary descision by the devs. It's unbalanced, especially for a certain frigate carrier, and I will argue against it. If it goes through, then I will USE it, by flying ships in question. I am a pragmatist, to your egotism. Rounding up: I hope certain ships (cough arround the frigate level cough) will be examined for necessary exceptions. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.01 22:44:00 - [15] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/11/2005 22:44:17 Heh. It's getting halved AGAIN. Now you can throw 5 mediums rather than 8 heavies into the fray. Arn't you GLAD! (oopsie, irony AND sarcasm) "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.01 22:44:00 - [16] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/11/2005 22:44:17 Heh. It's getting halved AGAIN. Now you can throw 5 mediums rather than 8 heavies into the fray. Arn't you GLAD! (oopsie, irony AND sarcasm) //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.02 01:07:00 - [17] Can I have your stuff? Good riddance. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.02 01:07:00 - [18] Can I have your stuff? Good riddance. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.02 01:17:00 - [19] Originally by: Lee Fraga Yeah it's all just numbers for me, but why don't you make drones work properly befor go changin them? The targeting and probably some of the other issues are lag-related and hence exactly what they ARE fixing. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.02 01:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Lee Fraga Yeah it's all just numbers for me, but why don't you make drones work properly befor go changin them? The targeting and probably some of the other issues are lag-related and hence exactly what they ARE fixing. //Maya

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.02 02:45:00 - [21] Originally by: Kaell Meynn In case you missed it TUX, here is (yet another) explanation of the issues... <snip> And? Consider it a sacrifice to the gods of lag. It could of been much, much worse. What I thought they were gonna do was worse. Ishtar might need a small fittings boost. Dom will be fine. Ishkur has got a whopping fat damage BONUS. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.02 02:45:00 - [22] Originally by: Kaell Meynn In case you missed it TUX, here is (yet another) explanation of the issues... <snip> And? Consider it a sacrifice to the gods of lag. It could of been much, much worse. What I thought they were gonna do was worse. Ishtar might need a small fittings boost. Dom will be fine. Ishkur has got a whopping fat damage BONUS. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.02 20:29:00 - [23] lol @ people. If you boost drones proportionally, then you must balance the EW drones so they are not the end-all at 150% of "normal" effectiveness. So then all OTHER ships will have them 2/3 balanced level. So useful. Tuxford PLEASE don't boost the Ishkur. It's not a bad ship as it stands. With drone interfacing 5, you're talking about a 60% damage increase from it's drones. It would suddenly become, by quite a margin, the nastiest AF. It dosn't need this kind of boost! Equivalence was the goal, no? "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.02 20:29:00 - [24] lol @ people. If you boost drones proportionally, then you must balance the EW drones so they are not the end-all at 150% of "normal" effectiveness. So then all OTHER ships will have them 2/3 balanced level. So useful. Tuxford PLEASE don't boost the Ishkur. It's not a bad ship as it stands. With drone interfacing 5, you're talking about a 60% damage increase from it's drones. It would suddenly become, by quite a margin, the nastiest AF. It dosn't need this kind of boost! Equivalence was the goal, no? //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.02 22:50:00 - [25] Originally by: Tiny Carlos Originally by: Clavius XIV Edited by: Clavius XIV on 02/11/2005 18:50:25 Edited by: Clavius XIV on 02/11/2005 18:49:03 Originally by: Tiny Carlos If you look at Drone Interfacing as a skill now, ignoring what it is beeing changed to balance, it's freakishly overpowered. It had some of this effect before but only on really big drone bays, not for every single droneuser. This is actually an excellent point. Its a good thing that the intial proposal is being adjusted to insure that drone specialists in drone ships don't do less damage/mining than before. However for ships with less than 100m3 dronebay,this represents a significant dps boost. In the best case, take the Prophecy, which with the current 50m^3 dronebay can currently launch 2 heavies or 5 mediums. A Prophecy pilot with drone interfacing or drones V does exactly the same max dps currently. (could launch 10 lights, but they do less damage than 5 mediums). With the changes a prophecy pilot can doublecurrent maximum possible drone.. .. You missed the point there, the balace between what damage ships will do with drones now and after the change is OK (sortof, if you ignore frigs for noobs, like tux did), it's how it's achived that is the problem. Picure yourself a newish player looking at drone skills, you got +5% per lvl range on scout, +%5 mining there, +5% damage on Heavy drones, +5% speed on drone nav and...WTF! +20% damage and +20% mining on one skill! It's obviously got problems. Not at all. It's a rank 5 skill. Heavy drone ops is the preq for T2 heavy drones, which is fine too. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.02 22:50:00 - [26] Originally by: Tiny Carlos Originally by: Clavius XIV Edited by: Clavius XIV on 02/11/2005 18:50:25 Edited by: Clavius XIV on 02/11/2005 18:49:03 Originally by: Tiny Carlos If you look at Drone Interfacing as a skill now, ignoring what it is beeing changed to balance, it's freakishly overpowered. It had some of this effect before but only on really big drone bays, not for every single droneuser. This is actually an excellent point. Its a good thing that the intial proposal is being adjusted to insure that drone specialists in drone ships don't do less damage/mining than before. However for ships with less than 100m3 dronebay,this represents a significant dps boost. In the best case, take the Prophecy, which with the current 50m^3 dronebay can currently launch 2 heavies or 5 mediums. A Prophecy pilot with drone interfacing or drones V does exactly the same max dps currently. (could launch 10 lights, but they do less damage than 5 mediums). With the changes a prophecy pilot can doublecurrent maximum possible drone.. .. You missed the point there, the balace between what damage ships will do with drones now and after the change is OK (sortof, if you ignore frigs for noobs, like tux did), it's how it's achived that is the problem. Picure yourself a newish player looking at drone skills, you got +5% per lvl range on scout, +%5 mining there, +5% damage on Heavy drones, +5% speed on drone nav and...WTF! +20% damage and +20% mining on one skill! It's obviously got problems. Not at all. It's a rank 5 skill. Heavy drone ops is the preq for T2 heavy drones, which is fine too. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.02 23:28:00 - [27] Originally by: Tiny Carlos Quote: I liked swarms... they looked awesome in action dont you think? This makes a point I think, drone ships having more drones was part of their style, like the rifters speed bonus. Even if you can work the numbers so things balance out, the style has gone, and that's important. No, style means nothing for balance. The rifter needs its speed because of the weapons it carrys. The new rifter, well, I for one will be packing a nano. Drone ships will be MORE effective with the new modules. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.02 23:28:00 - [28] Originally by: Tiny Carlos Quote: I liked swarms... they looked awesome in action dont you think? This makes a point I think, drone ships having more drones was part of their style, like the rifters speed bonus. Even if you can work the numbers so things balance out, the style has gone, and that's important. No, style means nothing for balance. The rifter needs its speed because of the weapons it carrys. The new rifter, well, I for one will be packing a nano. Drone ships will be MORE effective with the new modules. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.03 00:02:00 - [29] Originally by: Kaell Meynn Originally by: Maya Rkell Drone ships will be MORE effective with the new modules. Explain how a Dominix with the new modules is MORE effective than a Megathron with the new modules? Or are you saying you think only the Dominix can fit the new modules? Dominix will be less effective with the new drones and the new modules in comparison to their efficacy now, as they will be about the same effectiveness as non-drone ships. Go and actually read CCP's latest dev blog then come back. kthx. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.03 00:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Kaell Meynn Originally by: Maya Rkell Drone ships will be MORE effective with the new modules. Explain how a Dominix with the new modules is MORE effective than a Megathron with the new modules? Or are you saying you think only the Dominix can fit the new modules? Dominix will be less effective with the new drones and the new modules in comparison to their efficacy now, as they will be about the same effectiveness as non-drone ships. Go and actually read CCP's latest dev blog then come back. kthx. //Maya

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.03 00:34:00 - [31] Then either EW drones are stupidly overpowered, or are worthless on any other ships. Won't fly, can't fly. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.03 00:34:00 - [32] Then either EW drones are stupidly overpowered, or are worthless on any other ships. Won't fly, can't fly. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.03 03:12:00 - [33] Again, if you make EW boosted on the Dom, either you make the dom retardedly powerful, or you make the EW drones useless on normal ships. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.03 03:12:00 - [34] Again, if you make EW boosted on the Dom, either you make the dom retardedly powerful, or you make the EW drones useless on normal ships. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.03 03:17:00 - [35] The extra hp seem to have fallen by the wayside in favour of the tanking changes "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.03 03:17:00 - [36] The extra hp seem to have fallen by the wayside in favour of the tanking changes //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.03 20:30:00 - [37] Originally by: Slink Grinsdikild I still think EW and Webber drones are way too unbalancing, especially as counter-frigate tools. Its bad enough that Heavy Nosferatu's are the 'I win' button against smaller ships, now we'll have webbers CHASING us and jammers beating frigate/cruiser sensor strenght all the time. So much for frigate specialization eh? Quite "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.03 20:30:00 - [38] Originally by: Slink Grinsdikild I still think EW and Webber drones are way too unbalancing, especially as counter-frigate tools. Its bad enough that Heavy Nosferatu's are the 'I win' button against smaller ships, now we'll have webbers CHASING us and jammers beating frigate/cruiser sensor strenght all the time. So much for frigate specialization eh? Quite //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.03 21:24:00 - [39] Originally by: Derran Originally by: Slink Grinsdikild I still think EW and Webber drones are way too unbalancing, especially as counter-frigate tools. Its bad enough that Heavy Nosferatu's are the 'I win' button against smaller ships, now we'll have webbers CHASING us and jammers beating frigate/cruiser sensor strenght all the time. So much for frigate specialization eh? Um, you expect to solo a battleship with a frigate? Not going to happen. Ever try 10 frigates against a battleship though? Lotsa fun. Especially when you go after those types of people who expect a battleship to be the equivalent of a maxed out level character on another type of MMORPG. They are like freaking out when they die. Yea, NOW. The point is that the new drones, in particular the web ones, tip the balance FAR too far towards the BS. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.03 21:24:00 - [40] Originally by: Derran Originally by: Slink Grinsdikild I still think EW and Webber drones are way too unbalancing, especially as counter-frigate tools. Its bad enough that Heavy Nosferatu's are the 'I win' button against smaller ships, now we'll have webbers CHASING us and jammers beating frigate/cruiser sensor strenght all the time. So much for frigate specialization eh? Um, you expect to solo a battleship with a frigate? Not going to happen. Ever try 10 frigates against a battleship though? Lotsa fun. Especially when you go after those types of people who expect a battleship to be the equivalent of a maxed out level character on another type of MMORPG. They are like freaking out when they die. Yea, NOW. The point is that the new drones, in particular the web ones, tip the balance FAR too far towards the BS. //Maya

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.03 22:08:00 - [41] Yea, web drones are a...wait, they're not. Intelligence > You. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.03 22:08:00 - [42] Yea, web drones are a...wait, they're not. Intelligence > You. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.04 02:55:00 - [43] Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Malken Originally by: Jim Raynor Luckily heavy missiles happen to pwn heavy drones quite nicely. Which sadly is only one of the few things they are good against. perhaps but compare the dmg a battleships drones do to a interceptor vs the dmg a cerberus do to a interceptor and its a giggle yes for some reason the sig penalty on mwd is being offset by the increased velocity WAY too much.. sorry but .3 damage is pretty stupid, there is like, almost no way for a cerberus to beat an inty without assaults and double web or something.. and if he is good and stays out of web range, well, u lose, or have to run, or whatever Uh-huh. 3 volleys to kill an interceptor is bad? Smoke. Pipe. Wtf. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.04 02:55:00 - [44] Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Malken Originally by: Jim Raynor Luckily heavy missiles happen to pwn heavy drones quite nicely. Which sadly is only one of the few things they are good against. perhaps but compare the dmg a battleships drones do to a interceptor vs the dmg a cerberus do to a interceptor and its a giggle yes for some reason the sig penalty on mwd is being offset by the increased velocity WAY too much.. sorry but .3 damage is pretty stupid, there is like, almost no way for a cerberus to beat an inty without assaults and double web or something.. and if he is good and stays out of web range, well, u lose, or have to run, or whatever Uh-huh. 3 volleys to kill an interceptor is bad? Smoke. Pipe. Wtf. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.04 13:53:00 - [45] Originally by: Soulita Edited by: Soulita on 04/11/2005 12:14:09 Edited by: Soulita on 04/11/2005 12:06:07 Originally by: jamesw Domi pilots have to give up "more" to use them? Big Deal! ... It is a big deal. Reading Tuxfords posts regarding the drone changes as well as Oveurs it seems very clear CCP originally had no intention to nerf drone carriers. You can read these posts here, here and here. So the drone overhaul should be optimized in a way that no nerf happens to drone carriers at all. The Ishkur is getting an ENTIRELY UNWARENTED 60% bonus to drone damage. SIX-ZERO. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.04 13:53:00 - [46] Originally by: Soulita Edited by: Soulita on 04/11/2005 12:14:09 Edited by: Soulita on 04/11/2005 12:06:07 Originally by: jamesw Domi pilots have to give up "more" to use them? Big Deal! ... It is a big deal. Reading Tuxfords posts regarding the drone changes as well as Oveurs it seems very clear CCP originally had no intention to nerf drone carriers. You can read these posts here, here and here. So the drone overhaul should be optimized in a way that no nerf happens to drone carriers at all. The Ishkur is getting an ENTIRELY UNWARENTED 60% bonus to drone damage. SIX-ZERO. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.05 00:18:00 - [47] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 05/11/2005 00:19:50 Originally by: Soulita Drone carriers are: Domi, Ishtar, Moros You can't even keep your facts straight. The Ishkur is a drone carrier too. You have to scale changes to it as well, for the sake of balance. So it would have 6 drones to play with. And your idea's drawback is the overpowering of EW drones on the drone ships, and the very thing that this update is addressing: lag. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.05 00:18:00 - [48] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 05/11/2005 00:19:50 Originally by: Soulita Drone carriers are: Domi, Ishtar, Moros You can't even keep your facts straight. The Ishkur is a drone carrier too. You have to scale changes to it as well, for the sake of balance. So it would have 6 drones to play with. And your idea's drawback is the overpowering of EW drones on the drone ships, and the very thing that this update is addressing: lag. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:39:00 - [49] Eh? Heavy drones are far too deverstating against frigs "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.07 21:39:00 - [50] Eh? Heavy drones are far too deverstating against frigs //Maya

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:37:00 - [51] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 07/11/2005 22:40:35 Edited by: Maya Rkell on 07/11/2005 22:39:07 Edited by: Maya Rkell on 07/11/2005 22:38:52 Originally by: Soulita Originally by: Maya Rkell Eh? Heavy drones are far too deverstating against frigs Yea, and far too little devestating against BSs, especially if they have SBs - lol Yea, and this change is addressing just that - they'll last for more more SB cycles. So you're agreeing they should have a properly sized signature resoloution? PS, with BS4/DI4 you could previously have 13 drones. Now you have the equivalent of 12.6. That's a 3% damage reduction. Sky's falling, sky's falling. Oh and you have a much bigger drone reserve... (I lost more (4%) going from 25% RoF / 25% damage on my ceptor to 50% damage) "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.07 22:37:00 - [52] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 07/11/2005 22:40:35 Edited by: Maya Rkell on 07/11/2005 22:39:07 Edited by: Maya Rkell on 07/11/2005 22:38:52 Originally by: Soulita Originally by: Maya Rkell Eh? Heavy drones are far too deverstating against frigs Yea, and far too little devestating against BSs, especially if they have SBs - lol Yea, and this change is addressing just that - they'll last for more more SB cycles. So you're agreeing they should have a properly sized signature resoloution? PS, with BS4/DI4 you could previously have 13 drones. Now you have the equivalent of 12.6. That's a 3% damage reduction. Sky's falling, sky's falling. Oh and you have a much bigger drone reserve... (I lost more (4%) going from 25% RoF / 25% damage on my ceptor to 50% damage) //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.11 23:41:00 - [53] I've previously suggested +1 drone/level and cut to a more sane +35% from that, or a nasty hit of EW... "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.11 23:41:00 - [54] I've previously suggested +1 drone/level and cut to a more sane +35% from that, or a nasty hit of EW... //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.12 20:16:00 - [55] Originally by: Ocean Soul HAHAHAHAHAHAH, oh man, when sum1 told there were going to be Jamming drones i thought my number was up. i thought it would ruin my EW trade. but jamming strength 1.5 for the large 1's ROFLMAO!!! oh thats just made my day that has. but u gotta admit they are pritty useless. lollollollol. you are expecting even5 drones to jam a Raven successfully? i can hold 1 in my blackbird but thats pushing it. Their only fesable use is going to be agaisnt T1 frigs. you will still need fleet EW support from a ship. Okay Mr. Wunderkind. I'm fighting you, BS to BS. I use 5 EW drones on you. 5% chance of jamming you, 5s cycle. Or I use 2 Multispec II's on you. 25% chance of jamming you, 30s cycle. Which is more dangerous? (Hint - locking takes time!) "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.12 20:16:00 - [56] Originally by: Ocean Soul HAHAHAHAHAHAH, oh man, when sum1 told there were going to be Jamming drones i thought my number was up. i thought it would ruin my EW trade. but jamming strength 1.5 for the large 1's ROFLMAO!!! oh thats just made my day that has. but u gotta admit they are pritty useless. lollollollol. you are expecting even5 drones to jam a Raven successfully? i can hold 1 in my blackbird but thats pushing it. Their only fesable use is going to be agaisnt T1 frigs. you will still need fleet EW support from a ship. Okay Mr. Wunderkind. I'm fighting you, BS to BS. I use 5 EW drones on you. 5% chance of jamming you, 5s cycle. Or I use 2 Multispec II's on you. 25% chance of jamming you, 30s cycle. Which is more dangerous? (Hint - locking takes time!) //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.12 20:24:00 - [57] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 12/11/2005 20:24:01 Originally by: Grey Area This is a crosspost from another thread...corssposting is baad, m'kay? But in this case I think it needs to be seen here. I've added a bit more info, so it's not just a plain copy/paste job. Originally by: Liu Kaskakka Everyone has drone interfacing lvl 5 already anyway so it doesn't matter. Originally by: Weirda not saying its not a nerf... but why 'raven'? Let me explain. You're wrong. Why? As you say, any inty pilot worth his salt knows at what angle he can approach a BS. He will take minimal, if any, damage on the approach to a turret BS. He WILL take damage on the the approach (shorter though it might be) to a missile BS. When he has closed, he will simply never be hit by the turret BS, his transversal will be too high. A missile BS will keep on hitting him. When he has closed, yes, the Raven has 2 slots free. So do a lot of other BS. Nospheratu can swiftly kill the interceptors cap. Yet, a turret BS STILL won't be able to hit the interceptor, while the Raven will now be doing more damage than before. So no, I don't see the problem. Tpainter/Web drones screw this all up, of course. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.12 20:24:00 - [58] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 12/11/2005 20:24:01 Originally by: Grey Area This is a crosspost from another thread...corssposting is baad, m'kay? But in this case I think it needs to be seen here. I've added a bit more info, so it's not just a plain copy/paste job. Originally by: Liu Kaskakka Everyone has drone interfacing lvl 5 already anyway so it doesn't matter. Originally by: Weirda not saying its not a nerf... but why 'raven'? Let me explain. You're wrong. Why? As you say, any inty pilot worth his salt knows at what angle he can approach a BS. He will take minimal, if any, damage on the approach to a turret BS. He WILL take damage on the the approach (shorter though it might be) to a missile BS. When he has closed, he will simply never be hit by the turret BS, his transversal will be too high. A missile BS will keep on hitting him. When he has closed, yes, the Raven has 2 slots free. So do a lot of other BS. Nospheratu can swiftly kill the interceptors cap. Yet, a turret BS STILL won't be able to hit the interceptor, while the Raven will now be doing more damage than before. So no, I don't see the problem. Tpainter/Web drones screw this all up, of course. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.24 01:07:00 - [59] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 24/11/2005 01:08:55 Tux, I really don't like the look of that computer adding drones. You'll end up with drone boats sweeping away smaller ships in seconds with a cloud of uber drones. Even though, yes, minmatar would get good use out of them I hate the concept. Trelennen, So basically a relatively unskilled pilot will now be able to use drones at VERY near full effectiveness? Uhm...UGH. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.24 01:07:00 - [60] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 24/11/2005 01:08:55 Tux, I really don't like the look of that computer adding drones. You'll end up with drone boats sweeping away smaller ships in seconds with a cloud of uber drones. Even though, yes, minmatar would get good use out of them I hate the concept. Trelennen, So basically a relatively unskilled pilot will now be able to use drones at VERY near full effectiveness? Uhm...UGH. //Maya

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.24 01:14:00 - [61] The problem is that those items cannot web a frigate at range and then pound it with damage which will chase it, regardless of its position relative to the target ship. And on the dom, it's not even a specalised module since it'll also let them throw more heavies... "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.24 01:14:00 - [62] The problem is that those items cannot web a frigate at range and then pound it with damage which will chase it, regardless of its position relative to the target ship. And on the dom, it's not even a specalised module since it'll also let them throw more heavies... //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.24 13:59:00 - [63] Originally by: Nekhad Jormuzzar Edited by: Nekhad Jormuzzar on 24/11/2005 01:42:01 Again, I fail to see the problem. If someone wants to transform the Raven in a rocket launcher platform, they can do it. If a Bship pilot wants to fully devote his ship to anti-frig or anti cruiser duty then he should be able to smoke lower classes. And this comes from someone who rarely flies Bships. As for the Domi, simply make the modules use something like 1500/2000 MW along with the current 75 tf so they cannot fit them and tank. Add the new changes and suddenly losing it's tank becomes not such a good an idea. That PG requirement will prevent lower classes from using the module, but it's not like any cruiser or frigate is going to have 75 tf spare to fit such a module anyway unless they get a fitting bonus. Um...it's more that by sacrificing highslots he has no other use for, he can drastically increase his overall firepower aginst ANY ship. Yes, I'm thinking of the flying trashcan and the dom here. The potential to stack even more web and damage drones together REALLY hurts smaller ships in particular, though. Which is why I am, and will remain, opposed to this entire deal now since these things seem to come in packages. And 75Tf free REALLY depends on the ship and fitting. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.24 13:59:00 - [64] Originally by: Nekhad Jormuzzar Edited by: Nekhad Jormuzzar on 24/11/2005 01:42:01 Again, I fail to see the problem. If someone wants to transform the Raven in a rocket launcher platform, they can do it. If a Bship pilot wants to fully devote his ship to anti-frig or anti cruiser duty then he should be able to smoke lower classes. And this comes from someone who rarely flies Bships. As for the Domi, simply make the modules use something like 1500/2000 MW along with the current 75 tf so they cannot fit them and tank. Add the new changes and suddenly losing it's tank becomes not such a good an idea. That PG requirement will prevent lower classes from using the module, but it's not like any cruiser or frigate is going to have 75 tf spare to fit such a module anyway unless they get a fitting bonus. Um...it's more that by sacrificing highslots he has no other use for, he can drastically increase his overall firepower aginst ANY ship. Yes, I'm thinking of the flying trashcan and the dom here. The potential to stack even more web and damage drones together REALLY hurts smaller ships in particular, though. Which is why I am, and will remain, opposed to this entire deal now since these things seem to come in packages. And 75Tf free REALLY depends on the ship and fitting. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.24 21:02:00 - [65] Originally by: Rex Martell Even Webed and painted as you suggest Heavies are really going to have issues hitting smaller ships. And Sentry Drones just aren't going to be able to do it at all. It is true that a battle ship could carry lighter drones to kill frigates. This really only an option to a drone carrier using turrets. If the drone carrier is sacrificing high slots to launch extra drones There simply will not be space in the Drone bay for much variety. A Dominix for example giveing up 5 of its high slots to lauch 5 additional drones will only be able to carry one full wing of drones and half a wing of spares. No waves and waves of expendable drones. No webbies and Painters at all if you want to have any spare damage dealers. And you are going to need those spares. Unless you want to try doing your killing with your ONE remaining turret. I accept that it will be possible to launch a waried spead of drones easilly capable of dropping any frigate.. but this ship like a rocket spewing Raven or small pulse weilding Apoc better hope it does not encounter a ship in its own class. Did I say heavies? Nope. Mediums or lights. You can fit a complete set and heavies on 2 BS, or just go with the complete set of lighter drones on other BS (since you an't have a full set of heavies and any other drones anyway). I'd also like to point out right now that the dom can't carry a complete reserve wing of drones, and that stops, well, no-one. And as has been pointed out since, UBER damage. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.24 21:02:00 - [66] Originally by: Rex Martell Even Webed and painted as you suggest Heavies are really going to have issues hitting smaller ships. And Sentry Drones just aren't going to be able to do it at all. It is true that a battle ship could carry lighter drones to kill frigates. This really only an option to a drone carrier using turrets. If the drone carrier is sacrificing high slots to launch extra drones There simply will not be space in the Drone bay for much variety. A Dominix for example giveing up 5 of its high slots to lauch 5 additional drones will only be able to carry one full wing of drones and half a wing of spares. No waves and waves of expendable drones. No webbies and Painters at all if you want to have any spare damage dealers. And you are going to need those spares. Unless you want to try doing your killing with your ONE remaining turret. I accept that it will be possible to launch a waried spead of drones easilly capable of dropping any frigate.. but this ship like a rocket spewing Raven or small pulse weilding Apoc better hope it does not encounter a ship in its own class. Did I say heavies? Nope. Mediums or lights. You can fit a complete set and heavies on 2 BS, or just go with the complete set of lighter drones on other BS (since you an't have a full set of heavies and any other drones anyway). I'd also like to point out right now that the dom can't carry a complete reserve wing of drones, and that stops, well, no-one. And as has been pointed out since, UBER damage. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.25 02:39:00 - [67] Ithildin, You say "shoot the drone". Great, they are small and very tough targets. They are hard to lock because they are constantly moving. In even mild lag, it can be near impossible to lock them. Smartbombs are not very smart in Empire. And so on. They will be a VERY potent short range weapon, and also allow a tank or EW to be fitted, and quite possibly some guns as well. It is taking the careful work done on drones out and throwing it on its head, and incidently negating a good bit of the lag-reduction portion...I am now against these changes because if this module is to be allowed, I don't believe the origional rationally anymore. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.25 02:39:00 - [68] Ithildin, You say "shoot the drone". Great, they are small and very tough targets. They are hard to lock because they are constantly moving. In even mild lag, it can be near impossible to lock them. Smartbombs are not very smart in Empire. And so on. They will be a VERY potent short range weapon, and also allow a tank or EW to be fitted, and quite possibly some guns as well. It is taking the careful work done on drones out and throwing it on its head, and incidently negating a good bit of the lag-reduction portion...I am now against these changes because if this module is to be allowed, I don't believe the origional rationally anymore. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.25 19:38:00 - [69] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 25/11/2005 19:38:37 Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Dark PIne Originally by: Tuxford Drone Control Unit - +1 drone, max 5 units, high slot, cpu intensive I propose following drones to balance the situation for missile and turret users: Launcher Control Drone - +1 extra missile fired from a launcher, can control only one launcher Turret Control Drone - +1 extra round/beam fired from a turret, can control only one turret CCP is trying to transform gank fests into genuines battles (se the defense upgrade). What you propose would be totally counter-productive. Congratulations, you've seen the light. No drone control modules! PS, missiles are by FAR the best anti-drone weapons. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.25 19:38:00 - [70] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 25/11/2005 19:38:37 Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Dark PIne Originally by: Tuxford Drone Control Unit - +1 drone, max 5 units, high slot, cpu intensive I propose following drones to balance the situation for missile and turret users: Launcher Control Drone - +1 extra missile fired from a launcher, can control only one launcher Turret Control Drone - +1 extra round/beam fired from a turret, can control only one turret CCP is trying to transform gank fests into genuines battles (se the defense upgrade). What you propose would be totally counter-productive. Congratulations, you've seen the light. No drone control modules! PS, missiles are by FAR the best anti-drone weapons. //Maya

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.27 01:08:00 - [71] Originally by: Ranger 1 You folks are going to have to make up your mind... either the drone carriers are hopelessly nerfed now, or can be uber powerful. Quit flip flopping. You know FULL WELL that this "flip flop" is due to new information from CCP. Things were fine. Then CCP posted something, and they were not. There is ONE module which is a problem and we do not want to see. And there are of course outstanding issues with EW drones. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.27 01:08:00 - [72] Originally by: Ranger 1 You folks are going to have to make up your mind... either the drone carriers are hopelessly nerfed now, or can be uber powerful. Quit flip flopping. You know FULL WELL that this "flip flop" is due to new information from CCP. Things were fine. Then CCP posted something, and they were not. There is ONE module which is a problem and we do not want to see. And there are of course outstanding issues with EW drones. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.28 21:52:00 - [73] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 28/11/2005 21:51:59 Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 28/11/2005 04:35:06 No worries Dark PIne. Leneerra, the whole point of these changes is to rebalance the game on a large scale. Exactly. And balance was exactly what the proposals achieved. (ignoring EW drones). Then they threw in a module whoch will be badly overpowered on certain ships and useless on others to placate the whiners. That is NOT a good basis for altering balance on, and given it will negate a good part of the attempted changes, I'd rather settle for NO change. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.28 21:52:00 - [74] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 28/11/2005 21:51:59 Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 28/11/2005 04:35:06 No worries Dark PIne. Leneerra, the whole point of these changes is to rebalance the game on a large scale. Exactly. And balance was exactly what the proposals achieved. (ignoring EW drones). Then they threw in a module whoch will be badly overpowered on certain ships and useless on others to placate the whiners. That is NOT a good basis for altering balance on, and given it will negate a good part of the attempted changes, I'd rather settle for NO change. //Maya
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.11.29 18:58:00 - [75] Originally by: Hllaxiu (5mil isk says these things won't see the light of day on TQ) Done. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2005.11.29 18:58:00 - [76] Originally by: Hllaxiu (5mil isk says these things won't see the light of day on TQ) Done. //Maya

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